Three fast passes per day?
- Thread starter Roger
- Start date
How old...like A-E ticket books? ; Works for me. ; Free admission to the park, buy a ticket book for the rides you want to go on. ; I like it. ; I only go on 3-4 rides a park anyway - I'd save a bundle!! ; 
I'd love to see dining plan, advanced reservations, fast pass, and fast pass + all go away - take it back to mid-90s with annual passes and people who actually had a modicum of patience and without all of the self-importance - and people who looked around at the parks and theming and spoke to other guests, rather than staring transfixed at their glowing smart screens and blindly walking past all the intricate details and stories.
I'd love to see dining plan, advanced reservations, fast pass, and fast pass + all go away - take it back to mid-90s with annual passes and people who actually had a modicum of patience and without all of the self-importance - and people who looked around at the parks and theming and spoke to other guests, rather than staring transfixed at their glowing smart screens and blindly walking past all the intricate details and stories.
"Tim" said:
http://www.deadline.com/2013/01/disney- ... d-privacy/
The thing I'm referring to is the new COPPA rules, which are now in effect. ;
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2013/07/coppa.shtm
It basically says to even track someone under 13 (the rules are designed for the web BUT now affect mobile clients, and I'll bet the FTC will consider an interactive RFID system to be just that) you must first gain the parent's VERIFIED consent.
I don't think the FTC will like "Well, it was part of the T&C for accepting theme park admission and gaining entrance to the theme park" in order to track the user's location, and interact with the guest personally.... imagine having to sign something when you get your ticket granting permission to "market" to your under 13 year old child (especially since Disney considers what, 8 or 9 an adult? ; How will Disney know who is under 13????)
With out knowing a whole lot about this whole magic band thing, to me it just seems like a bad idea. I go on vacation to relax and have fun and despise having to plan every minute of every day.
Having to make dining plans six months out is already detestable in my opinion. Having to plan and fast pass everything from rides to potty breaks just does not seem fun.
I still enjoy going to the parks, enjoy the attractions, and enjoy the music but I can see my attitude changing for the negative very quickly if nonsense like this keeps up. I want to go on vacation to relax and enjoy my family, not be constantly checking my phone and being at the mercy of a countdown timer every step of the way while being tracked every move that I make.
What happens when your cell phone battery dies? What happens when a ride is inevitably broken? What happens if you lose your magic band? What happens if the weather is terrible? And so forth and so forth.
Having to make dining plans six months out is already detestable in my opinion. Having to plan and fast pass everything from rides to potty breaks just does not seem fun.
I still enjoy going to the parks, enjoy the attractions, and enjoy the music but I can see my attitude changing for the negative very quickly if nonsense like this keeps up. I want to go on vacation to relax and enjoy my family, not be constantly checking my phone and being at the mercy of a countdown timer every step of the way while being tracked every move that I make.
What happens when your cell phone battery dies? What happens when a ride is inevitably broken? What happens if you lose your magic band? What happens if the weather is terrible? And so forth and so forth.
"Tim" said:
We understand the frustration of having your cell phone battery die when you are enjoying your stay at The Happiest Place on Earth. ; That is why cell phone charging stations are available for free at the Samsung Cell Phone Photography center on Main Street. ; Spaces are limited and it is first come first serve.
Unfortunately we can not guarantee that an attraction will be operating during the regular operating day and that was part of the terms and conditions you agreed to when you purchased your theme park ticket and gained admission into the park. ; If a ride will not be operating for the remainder of the day, we will release your reservation allowing to enjoy another one of splendid attractions and shows.
Your safety and security are important to us, which is why we require a PIN for all purchases used with the Magic Band. ; You will need to contact Guest Relations immediately but unfortunately we will be unable to reassign any used FastPass Pluses before you contact Guest Relations.
Please read the terms and conditions of your admission. ; Your admission is nonrefundable in the event of inclement weather which occurs on a regular basis at the Walt Disney Resort, and especially between June and November.
/sarcasmcorporatespeak off
lightslicer
Member
the bands.....I've been following it for a "while"- leaves a real bad taste in our mouths-and the worst part is they really havent any idea of the difference between the practical application of this grandious idea- and the concept on paper...of some money hungry executive- that thought it was a great idea to sink a few billion into it- so he can leave a legacy---( you wonder why he's staying on another year?) instead of the infrastructure of the parks...with blinders on....
Stepping back to see what happens. ; and probably gonna thank them when its over for saving us so much money - not going to Disney......LOL
sorry- got kinda strong feeling on this--just my 1/4 of a cent....
I say bring back the ticket system for the rides- and a small admission to the parks.....
Stepping back to see what happens. ; and probably gonna thank them when its over for saving us so much money - not going to Disney......LOL
sorry- got kinda strong feeling on this--just my 1/4 of a cent....
I say bring back the ticket system for the rides- and a small admission to the parks.....
I like the new fast gate system, but not necessarily the armbands. ; I've upgraded my annual pass to the new green card, and it DOES speed up entry - once they expand them to all gates, it will open up essentially 4 entry points for every 2 previous turnstyles. ; But that's just for the entry - I don't want the band and the tracking all over the park and the advanced fastpasses and reservations and all the other junk.
Joanie Eddis-Koch
Member
I've been following this (though not in excruciating detail ) and I'm really on the fence about it. I'm inclined to not opt in until I know the "catch" and after spending a billion dollars on this there surely is a "catch". Oh wait! I think we know why Disney did this. The info they gain will be used to target marketing at you and to influence your purchasing decisions and behavior. That much is pretty indisputable.
I think I will be forced into participating in this when they remove any walk up FP ability.
The thing that sticks in my mind is that Disney tried this once before when they had that kiosk at the entrance to Epcot and you could make your dining reservations. That proved to be a disaster so they focused on the Advanced Dining reservations, which is a disaster but in a different way. The interface works for making reservations, you just have to do it 180 days out to get the popular places and walk ups are hard to get because even during the down season they don't staff the restaurants for the walk in and they NOW RELY on ADR's to determine staffing levels and supply ordering.
So now we have this new FP+ system with it's reliance on smart phone technology. It's sort of like the times have caught up with what Disney was trying to do with that Kiosk for Epcot restaurant reservations, only this time the "Kiosk" is in your pocket.
With the roll out and failure of the new Disney web site including the soon to be infamous My Disney (lack of) Experience it seems that the technology applications needed on Disney's end are so buggy they are not nearly as functional as they need to be.
So you have a system that is rolled out and foisted upon the customer that doesn't work properly,
That controls their behavior by forcing them into a touring plan that must be planned and not spontaneous,
AND Tracks their behavior and purchases purely for marketing purposes (I'm not buying the hype that this is to make YOUR experience any better).
Is this the future? Where our technology is purposed into controlling our behavior?? Where is the benefit to US in that??? Like everything else, if you get past the "we want to make your experience better!" line you see this is really about wringing more money out of the guest.
I surely do wish that the Disney Company would focus on making the experience for the guest the best that it can be versus maximizing it's profitability. Sadly, that is where the focus is today. Yeah sure, it costs billions to keep a park attractive and renewed but if you do it the right way, by making it so fabulous that people can't stay away you can accomplish they same goal versus taking the easy way out and putting the focus on manipulating people and marketing their data.
Maybe I'm being unrealistic on that last point. All I know is that it's not going to get any easier and Disney better step it up with it's product if it wants to remain viable...and in my opinion FP+ is not the way to achieving that goal.
~Joanie
I think I will be forced into participating in this when they remove any walk up FP ability.
The thing that sticks in my mind is that Disney tried this once before when they had that kiosk at the entrance to Epcot and you could make your dining reservations. That proved to be a disaster so they focused on the Advanced Dining reservations, which is a disaster but in a different way. The interface works for making reservations, you just have to do it 180 days out to get the popular places and walk ups are hard to get because even during the down season they don't staff the restaurants for the walk in and they NOW RELY on ADR's to determine staffing levels and supply ordering.
So now we have this new FP+ system with it's reliance on smart phone technology. It's sort of like the times have caught up with what Disney was trying to do with that Kiosk for Epcot restaurant reservations, only this time the "Kiosk" is in your pocket.
With the roll out and failure of the new Disney web site including the soon to be infamous My Disney (lack of) Experience it seems that the technology applications needed on Disney's end are so buggy they are not nearly as functional as they need to be.
So you have a system that is rolled out and foisted upon the customer that doesn't work properly,
That controls their behavior by forcing them into a touring plan that must be planned and not spontaneous,
AND Tracks their behavior and purchases purely for marketing purposes (I'm not buying the hype that this is to make YOUR experience any better).
Is this the future? Where our technology is purposed into controlling our behavior?? Where is the benefit to US in that??? Like everything else, if you get past the "we want to make your experience better!" line you see this is really about wringing more money out of the guest.
I surely do wish that the Disney Company would focus on making the experience for the guest the best that it can be versus maximizing it's profitability. Sadly, that is where the focus is today. Yeah sure, it costs billions to keep a park attractive and renewed but if you do it the right way, by making it so fabulous that people can't stay away you can accomplish they same goal versus taking the easy way out and putting the focus on manipulating people and marketing their data.
Maybe I'm being unrealistic on that last point. All I know is that it's not going to get any easier and Disney better step it up with it's product if it wants to remain viable...and in my opinion FP+ is not the way to achieving that goal.
~Joanie
It is a tough call Joanie - much as I hate many of the new upgrades and connected changes they're making, I do understand the 'why' - even if I don't agree with it. ; I guess the hardest part for me is that this seems to be the one area in my life where I sense being 'old' or outdated...with much else, I keep up with the times, but this desire to have everything virtual and instant via smartphone and handheld device with 24-hour connectivity is something I truly just don't get. ; There's even a distant hope I have that, similar to how some other older and forgotten ways of working and living seem to make comebacks every so often, Disney may someday open a new theme park that offers guests a retro visit to the original Disney of the 1950s - all the original rides, employees who abide by the style and behavior and kindness of that day, and most importantly, a complete blackout of all phones, smartphones, web devices, and other electronic connections - no texting, no advanced reservations, no cellphone conversations standing in line, nothing but old-fashioned, face-to-face interaction and old-fashioned friendliness.
RedOctober25
Member
"zackiedawg" said:
The newest land at the Magic Kingdom... Retroland!
Sent by using Tapatalk...
Mmmm - I'd be all over the annual pass for that one. ; 
Exactly. ; Darn kids. ; And pull up your pants while you're at it!
ExploringWDW
Member
Has anyone here used the system yet? We are staying at AKL during the August test period. We recently received our MagicBands and I have made some afternoon ride reservations for attractions we would be unable to get fastpasses at reasonable times for when arriving in the afternoon, after park hopping from our morning park. I think it will be nice to be able to arrive at HS in the afternoon and actually be able to ride TSMM without a 120 minute wait. When this is in full roll out, will I still be able to get that reservation only one month out? Not sure, but I am hoping they find a way to make the system work better than the ADR system. I’ve visited about four times since BOG opened and I have yet to get a dinner ADR.
Also, how do most people here go about their Disney visits? We have 17 trips logged since 2008 and I feel like I know what I’m doing when it comes to WDW but the few times we have tried to just wing it, it just seems less enjoyable. We don’t plan every minute at the parks, but we have a good idea of which park we want to do on which day of the trip, and we know the rides we MUST hit early because FP is gone early and standby queues build quickly. With FP+ that kind of planning does not go away, for me it just changes, and in this scenario it seems to be a change for the better. BUT, like I mentioned above, those reservations may run out quickly when the system is fully implemented.
Still, I am not real keen on the concept, but I am trying to keep an open mind and see how this all plays out. I don’t like the fact that FP+ is only good for one park a day, but when park hopping, whatever morning park it may be, it’s not too tough to hit most, if not all, of the highest wait time attractions we care about within the first few hours. Back on July 18, Touring Plans had a post (http://blog.touringplans.com/2013/07/18/preliminary-wdw-mymagic-test-observations/) about the upcoming test and they referred to the Disney FAQ regarding FP+ users being ineligible for regular FastPass. (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/) The link was functional at the time, but now that particular FAQ has disappeared from the Disney page. This tells me that Disney may be listening to the community and responding. Maybe that’s wishful thinking.
Also, how do most people here go about their Disney visits? We have 17 trips logged since 2008 and I feel like I know what I’m doing when it comes to WDW but the few times we have tried to just wing it, it just seems less enjoyable. We don’t plan every minute at the parks, but we have a good idea of which park we want to do on which day of the trip, and we know the rides we MUST hit early because FP is gone early and standby queues build quickly. With FP+ that kind of planning does not go away, for me it just changes, and in this scenario it seems to be a change for the better. BUT, like I mentioned above, those reservations may run out quickly when the system is fully implemented.
Still, I am not real keen on the concept, but I am trying to keep an open mind and see how this all plays out. I don’t like the fact that FP+ is only good for one park a day, but when park hopping, whatever morning park it may be, it’s not too tough to hit most, if not all, of the highest wait time attractions we care about within the first few hours. Back on July 18, Touring Plans had a post (http://blog.touringplans.com/2013/07/18/preliminary-wdw-mymagic-test-observations/) about the upcoming test and they referred to the Disney FAQ regarding FP+ users being ineligible for regular FastPass. (https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/fast-pass-plus/) The link was functional at the time, but now that particular FAQ has disappeared from the Disney page. This tells me that Disney may be listening to the community and responding. Maybe that’s wishful thinking.
Unfortunately, your guess is as good as anyone's as far as whether Fast Pass reservations will be readily available shortly before a trip, or if it's going to get as bad as the ADRs which are often long gone 6 months out or more. ; The nightmare scenario many of us worry about is having to book all FastPasses and ADRs 11 months out to have any chance...I sure hope not, because if you think it's bad for those who want to book Fast Passes and ADRs only a month or so out, think of how bad it is for those of us who don't want to make any reservations and just want to enjoy a spontaneous unplanned trip!![/size]
[font=century gothic, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]My Disney trips can be a little unique compared to some, in that I do live close, have been going many times a year every year since the parks opened, and don't have any kids to entertain so my trips are all about me and friends & family - we tend to visit Disney more as a getaway from work, to hit some nice restaurants, people-watch, enjoy a little childhood memory, have some drinks, stay up late, sleep in, enjoy resort amenities, etc. ; Rides are fairly low on my list - I go on them, but only if I don't feel horribly inconvenienced. ; If the line is longer than 40 minutes, I'm out. ; If it's 100 degrees or more, then 20 minute lines are the limit if outdoors. ; If the parks just feel too crowded, I may just avoid rides and go to the quieter parts of the parks, walk and peoplewatch and enjoy photography.
[font=century gothic, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]It's probably why, despite many of the changes I despise, I can still enjoy my Disney trips - though admittedly the accumulation of irritating changes chips away at my enjoyment in little bits every time. ; The biggest disappointment is how challenging it is to enjoy the parks spontaneously, as they continually strip away the ability to do so. ; First it was the FastPass system in general which forced a little more advanced planning and slowed the standby lines. ; Then the ADR system and Dining Plan which made it a nightmare to find good walk-up dining. ; Then they started taking away peaceful spots in the park where you could enjoy a break in the shade - taking away benches, filling in holes with meet N greets...making the parks more about constant flow through rides and stores and less about relaxing and strolling through on your own time. ; Now with the constant connectivity, they're once again putting more planning into the process, leaving those with no desire for that out of luck, since some rides may be almost constantly seeing 1hr+ standby waits since a majority of the flow will be for the advanced FP+ planners leaving the rest stuck.[/font]
[font=century gothic, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I think the reason it was less enjoyable when you just winged it was precisely because they are virtually forcing a family to make advanced plans in order to eat, ride, and see shows. ; It didn't used to be this way - spontaneous visitors who didn't like to plan could hit any ride in less than 30 minutes line time, could get reservations at a restaurant in the afternoon for that evening, and could take your time around the park because you didn't feel like time spent resting or taking a break was going to 'penalize' you somehow, like missing out on the last fastpass or not making your reservation in time. ; We never had to rush to certain rides early in the day because the standby queues didn't get bigger as time went on - they were pretty much the same throughout the day, because the FastPass system didn't slow the standby line down by inserting the FastPassers in front of you. ; It's the very convenience of the Fast Pass system for Fast Pass users that makes the standby lines that much worse. ; Ideally the new system won't be much worse than the current FastPass system is, but it's an unknown as yet. ; I can't see it being better personally - I can only imagine it being either the same, or worse.[/font][/font]
ExploringWDW
Member
I can certainly see where you are coming from based on the way you tour, Justin. It is definitely the family trips that are more difficult when we don’t plan. Not having everyone on the same page is tough and we never tolerate a wait of more than 30 minutes.
I also wonder if what you are dealing with, as well as Disney’s new reservation systems coming on line, is a result of the huge increase in attendance and the lack of any real increase in capacity. Our first trip with the kids was during spring break in April 2008 and the crowds were very manageable even as noobs. In 2009 we did a no kids trip between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The parks were totally empty. Frontierland at 2PM and not a soul in sight. In 2010 we took the kids out of school for a trip during that same week in November and crowds were more like the April 2008 Spring Break trip. From then on, it seems like there really is no slow season. Its either busy or extremely busy. People like you, and even I as a non-local AP holder visiting 5-6 times a year are the minority in their attendance numbers. I think noobs thinking they can see it all feel a real need to plan every detail to make their once in a lifetime trip work. First timers don’t have any basis for comparison, but with the crowds like they are now, without all the pre-planning I think first timers would be very disappointed. Those first timers, I think, are the people Disney is catering to.
Thoughts?
I also wonder if what you are dealing with, as well as Disney’s new reservation systems coming on line, is a result of the huge increase in attendance and the lack of any real increase in capacity. Our first trip with the kids was during spring break in April 2008 and the crowds were very manageable even as noobs. In 2009 we did a no kids trip between Thanksgiving and Christmas. The parks were totally empty. Frontierland at 2PM and not a soul in sight. In 2010 we took the kids out of school for a trip during that same week in November and crowds were more like the April 2008 Spring Break trip. From then on, it seems like there really is no slow season. Its either busy or extremely busy. People like you, and even I as a non-local AP holder visiting 5-6 times a year are the minority in their attendance numbers. I think noobs thinking they can see it all feel a real need to plan every detail to make their once in a lifetime trip work. First timers don’t have any basis for comparison, but with the crowds like they are now, without all the pre-planning I think first timers would be very disappointed. Those first timers, I think, are the people Disney is catering to.
Thoughts?
I'd tend to agree - certainly I've been noting for years now how there appears to be much less downtime in the parks, and certainly not the old 'dead' seasons like there used to be (like you mention, I used to go on trips in early February, mid September, or the week after New Years and could experience sections of some parks completely empty - getting on rides with no line and even riding through several times because there was noone else waiting to load).
What I'd really like to figure out is...what are all those people doing? ; The strangest part of the new crowding that I find is that the ride lines aren't much higher than before - maybe a little, but not what you'd expect from the crowds milling about. ; I've been walking around MK barely able to get through the crowds, pushed my way into Pirates or Haunted Mansion, and was surprised to find waits of 10 minutes or less. ; Judging by the walkways and stores and Main Street, you'd have expected 60-minute wait times for everything. ; Now, that said, I also go during the more crowded seasons, and not only are the sidewalks crowded, but the ride wait times are more like the 60 minute to 1 1/2 hour lengths one would expect.
The question it raises for me is whether those visitors are more profitable to Disney, or not? ; I try to look at your average first-time visiting family, that gets the discount hotel, the free dining plan add-on during the promotion, gets the length-of-stay passes, and plans out their time in the park to the second, going from ride to ride and cashing in their meal plan credits, then leaves at the end of the day passed out cold - maybe they bought a hat or shirt at the gift shop one day. ; Then you've got me - I bought into the DVC, and pay the dues, don't go during discount times, continually renew an annual pass, visit various resorts each day before hitting the parks for a nice meal at a higher-end restaurant, paying cash/credit rather than meal plan, I buy snacks, drinks, etc throughout the day, including alcoholic ones, I have dinner usually at the $$$ or $$$$ restaurants every night, with wine and desserts, again always paying cash/credit...and I'll occasionally buy gifts for friends/relatives because of my DVC or AP discounts that tend to make me more willing to spend on some trinkets. ; My typical 4-day Disney trip with a friend or one relative will ring up about $800 on my credit card - pure spending, not even including DVC cost or annual dues, or AP cost...about a $400 per person spending range, or $100 per day, just for food/drink/gifts. ; It seems to me that I'm likely a higher spender per-day than the meal-plan buyers, at least on a per person basis. ; I'd tend to believe that others like myself are quite similar - I know quite a few other DVCers and local Floridians who like to travel like I do, and often are hanging out at the nicest restaurants, ringing up bar tabs at night, and springing for extra cost tours/addons, spas, golf, etc. ; Not keeping that crowd happy, or driving them out of their regular visits, might not be the best move financially for Disney in the long run...in other words, filling the parks year-round by hawking discounts on hotels and free dining plans isn't really bringing in any more revenue than an emptier park filled with higher-spending folks. ; Sort of like the tough argument that many bar/restaurants had when smoking bans came about - supposedly instituting smoking bans would make the majority of bar visitors happier with the cleaner air, yet any bar owner could tell you without question that smokers are higher spenders - they tend to be drinkers too, and if allowed to smoke, will spend much longer amounts of time at the bar, spending money. ; Ditto casinos. ; And I'm a non-smoker, so I'm certainly not arguing from that standpoint - but I know bar owners and restaurant owners who have had to close since the smoking bans, as their highest-spending clientele was pushed out in favor of lower-spending non-smoking clientele...I always wondered why a bar or restaurant cannot just declare themselves a smoking facility, but a big skull and crossbones on the building and signs, and let non-smokers just avoid that place!
I think the fine line for Disney is how to cater to new visitors and first-timers without losing their long-termers - with the amount many of us tend to spend, and due to our long-time affinity for Disney and memories from our childhoods we likely do much more promotion for Disney (sites like this as an example), keeping us wanting to go to the parks would seem to be a very important task. ; The whole point of bringing in first-timers, arguably, is to convert them to second-timers and multi-timers!
What I'd really like to figure out is...what are all those people doing? ; The strangest part of the new crowding that I find is that the ride lines aren't much higher than before - maybe a little, but not what you'd expect from the crowds milling about. ; I've been walking around MK barely able to get through the crowds, pushed my way into Pirates or Haunted Mansion, and was surprised to find waits of 10 minutes or less. ; Judging by the walkways and stores and Main Street, you'd have expected 60-minute wait times for everything. ; Now, that said, I also go during the more crowded seasons, and not only are the sidewalks crowded, but the ride wait times are more like the 60 minute to 1 1/2 hour lengths one would expect.
The question it raises for me is whether those visitors are more profitable to Disney, or not? ; I try to look at your average first-time visiting family, that gets the discount hotel, the free dining plan add-on during the promotion, gets the length-of-stay passes, and plans out their time in the park to the second, going from ride to ride and cashing in their meal plan credits, then leaves at the end of the day passed out cold - maybe they bought a hat or shirt at the gift shop one day. ; Then you've got me - I bought into the DVC, and pay the dues, don't go during discount times, continually renew an annual pass, visit various resorts each day before hitting the parks for a nice meal at a higher-end restaurant, paying cash/credit rather than meal plan, I buy snacks, drinks, etc throughout the day, including alcoholic ones, I have dinner usually at the $$$ or $$$$ restaurants every night, with wine and desserts, again always paying cash/credit...and I'll occasionally buy gifts for friends/relatives because of my DVC or AP discounts that tend to make me more willing to spend on some trinkets. ; My typical 4-day Disney trip with a friend or one relative will ring up about $800 on my credit card - pure spending, not even including DVC cost or annual dues, or AP cost...about a $400 per person spending range, or $100 per day, just for food/drink/gifts. ; It seems to me that I'm likely a higher spender per-day than the meal-plan buyers, at least on a per person basis. ; I'd tend to believe that others like myself are quite similar - I know quite a few other DVCers and local Floridians who like to travel like I do, and often are hanging out at the nicest restaurants, ringing up bar tabs at night, and springing for extra cost tours/addons, spas, golf, etc. ; Not keeping that crowd happy, or driving them out of their regular visits, might not be the best move financially for Disney in the long run...in other words, filling the parks year-round by hawking discounts on hotels and free dining plans isn't really bringing in any more revenue than an emptier park filled with higher-spending folks. ; Sort of like the tough argument that many bar/restaurants had when smoking bans came about - supposedly instituting smoking bans would make the majority of bar visitors happier with the cleaner air, yet any bar owner could tell you without question that smokers are higher spenders - they tend to be drinkers too, and if allowed to smoke, will spend much longer amounts of time at the bar, spending money. ; Ditto casinos. ; And I'm a non-smoker, so I'm certainly not arguing from that standpoint - but I know bar owners and restaurant owners who have had to close since the smoking bans, as their highest-spending clientele was pushed out in favor of lower-spending non-smoking clientele...I always wondered why a bar or restaurant cannot just declare themselves a smoking facility, but a big skull and crossbones on the building and signs, and let non-smokers just avoid that place!
I think the fine line for Disney is how to cater to new visitors and first-timers without losing their long-termers - with the amount many of us tend to spend, and due to our long-time affinity for Disney and memories from our childhoods we likely do much more promotion for Disney (sites like this as an example), keeping us wanting to go to the parks would seem to be a very important task. ; The whole point of bringing in first-timers, arguably, is to convert them to second-timers and multi-timers!
ExploringWDW
Member
Interesting observation. I wonder if Disney thinks they can push those crowds into rides like POTC and other high capacity rides with the FP+ system??? I have heard that people are getting a "bonus" 4th FP+ for POTC."zackiedawg" said:
Another good point that I must agree with. I have been known to run up $100 bar bills with my Single Malt Scotch addiction, and we do tend to do more fine dining when we do not have the kids."zackiedawg" said:
They are definitely catering to the big spending return visitor with the expansion of DVC to GF and the rumored addition of DVC to the Polynesian. Interesting that those expansions seem to be pushing the opposite of what additions of things like MyMagic+ are pushing. Especially based on one persons response further up this thread about being fed up to the point of dumping their DVC. Its unfortunate that they cant find something that works to keep everyone happy."zackiedawg" said:
Instead of spending billions to blanket the parks and Downtown Disney with wi-fi and implementing this FP+ thing, another E-ticket or two at each park would have been a much bigger PR hit for the first timers and us regulars.