Something kinda cool - ISO1600 and in camera HDR!

Discussion in 'Misc. Posting Board' started by zackiedawg, Nov 15, 2009.

  1. zackiedawg

    zackiedawg Member Staff Member

    Just experimenting over the weekend with the new cam, and happened upon something VERY interesting. ; This camera is quite good at high ISO, as are most of the latest batch from most manufacturers. ; However, it has one neat trick and that is an in-camera HDR function. ; It can be done handheld, and is really a neat feature...but it also dawned on me that it could be very interesting to use for night shots, for three reasons - 1. it increases dynamic range fairly significantly, and 2. it allows use of higher ISOs with little or no noise due to stacking, while retaining very good detail. ; The higher ISOs could be useful when taking slow shutter shots of scenics or landscapes where too long a shutter might result in motion blur from wind, people walking through frame, etc...normally I'd always go lowest ISO for slow shutter, but admittedly, the situation isn't always appropriate for a 30 second shutter. ; By raising the ISO, you can get the same light with a 5 second shutter. and 3. It might allow using smaller apertures at the same shutter speed for better depth of field when shooting night landscapes.

    So one experiment was to step outside my front door at nearly 2am, stick my camera on my wall, and blast off an HDR+2 shot at ISO1600 and F8 to see what I got. ; Note...my yard was quite dark to the naked eye, while the clubhouse lights in the distance were well lit - the focus point was on the distant trees lighted and lining the clubhouse entrance road, about 100 feet away - so there is a ton of contrast and focal distance in the scene (if you look close you can see the shadow areas which have been made much fainter due to the HDR):

    [​IMG]

    This was a wowza moment for me - a whole new shooting style or technique that could come in handy in specialized applications. ; Virtually noise-free at ISO1600, huge detail and massive DOF, and big-time dynamic range...all from a 6 second shot propped on a wall, shot in jpeg with no conversions and no post-processing at all. ; I'm seeing some cool potential here!

    (of course, anyone interested in such techniques can do this without the in-camera HDR - just post process for HDR with several high ISO shots from tripod. ; I just like that the feature is built into the camera, so I can just use it spontaneously and without any post processing needed).
     
  2. Scottwdw

    Scottwdw Member

    How does this work? ; Does the camera take multiple exposures and then does it's own HDR processing? ; Or, does it do what Nikon call Active D-Lighting?

    Active D-Lighting has been described as automatically identifying highlight areas that will be lost, and does its best to bring them under control.

    Your photo looks like that and is much more natural looking than most HDR images.
     
  3. Roger

    Roger Member Staff Member

    According to Sony, they are two different things:

    High Dynamic Range (HDR) photography captures more scene contrast than a single exposure can handle by combining two exposures into one incredible shot. Until recently, you needed a computer and editing software to enjoy HDR. Now the α550 has Auto HDR built in. Handles severe backlighting and other high-contrast scenes. Captures in a split second. (Recommended for still subjects.)

    Their D-Lighting is:
    Dynamic Range Optimizer improves results with backlit subjects and recovers details hidden in shadows. Normal DRO improves detail using standard gamma curves for fast shot-to-shot response time, while Advanced DRO adjusts dynamic range area-by-area for greater accuracy.
     
  4. zackiedawg

    zackiedawg Member Staff Member

    Exactly, Rog. ; The A550 has DRO, which is the same as Nikon's D Lighting. ; It has an auto mode, or up to 5 levels to select from. ; But it does the typical shadow adjustment on a single frame.

    The HDR mode takes two frames, aligns, and blends the two. ; Obviously, numerous advantages - 1. lower noise since the shadows aren't being boosted, they're being taken in an entirely different exposure...plus the blending/stacking process itself reduces noise, and 2. It is exposing separately for highlights and shadows and blending the two.

    The HDR mode also has multiple settings - from Auto, or manual settings from +1EV to +3EV in .5 increments. ; I used an HDR +2 for the above...If I push to HDR+3, it has the more typical highly pushed/fake HDR look. ; I may play with that sometimes - that extreme HDR look is fun sometimes - but in general, I prefer using the HDR for a more natural look at increases the dynamic range without going into that fantasy look. ; I find +1.5EV to be my preferred setting for daylight shots.

    What's neat is that it can be used handheld, just walking around and snapping. ; It takes the two frames in milliseconds, and automatically aligns them so no tripod is needed. ; I used it often on my cruise photos, especially shooting interiors with bright exterior light coming through windows, or park settings with tons of shadow from trees but bright sunlight.
     
  5. Scottwdw

    Scottwdw Member

    Thanks, Roger and Justin! ; A nice advancement in technology for sure.
     
  6. Jeff Fillmore

    Jeff Fillmore Member

    Looks pretty cool. ; I would like to see a comparrison set of shots taken with and without this feature and/or with some different settings used too.
     
  7. zackiedawg

    zackiedawg Member Staff Member

    I'll definitely be working on that soon. ; Just have to get the time one evening to go out and play with it. ; I did do one comparison, very unscientifically, in my library while sitting on my computer, shooting two photos handheld...one at ISO12800 with no DRO or HDR, and one at ISO12800 with HDR+1.5. ; Do note this is with my F3.5-4.5 Tamron wide angle lens at 10mm, shot in jpeg mode, handheld in low light at ISO12800 - it isn't going to look that pretty! ; But it does show some things: ; the lesser noise with HDR mode, the increased detail for that high of an ISO, and the increased shadow detail.

    here's the ISO12800 with no DRO or HDR:
    [​IMG]

    Here's the ISO12800 with HDR +1.5:
    [​IMG]

    I'm surprised I can even get that usable of a result on a 50% crop at ISO12800. ; It might look a bit better with some post processing, and a run through a good noise removal.
     
  8. Craig

    Craig Member Staff Member

    that is a cool feature!

    much more interesting to me than video or projection.....
     
  9. WDWFigment

    WDWFigment Member

    Agreed. ; How long did it take for the camera to produce the finished image? ; You said miliseconds, just want to make sure that's correct. ; If so, I find that amazing. ; CS3 takes quite a bit of processing time (for me) when I use to "Merge to HDR" feature. ; I guess I am a bit shocked that a camera has this type of processing power (although I don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of the technology, so maybe it shouldn't be so surprising). ;
     
  10. Roger

    Roger Member Staff Member

    I'm sure Nikon and Canon will have it sometime in 2010. ; Although I haven't played with the multiple exposure options on my 700.... ; (meaning it's not that hard for Nikon to modify it, it's a programming thing, like looking for highlights being blown and then accepting the lower value between the shots, or when there is non-black data being returned from the shadows of another)
     
  11. gary

    gary Member

    i think it's a great feature, and i cannot tell you how happy i am not it's not one of the big 2 companies, i love fierce competition, it can only help us consumers by upping features and quality while lowering price, milton f would be proud, free to choose at it's finest
     
  12. Roger

    Roger Member Staff Member

    Of course Gary, HDR is just a "fad"...like highlight recovery, and video from a still camera....... (I'm sure Canon and Nikon have egg on their faces somewhere because of this....)
     
  13. zackiedawg

    zackiedawg Member Staff Member

    Ha...ironically, Sony has the most egg on the face there, because despite being made fun of by Canon and Nikon for being a P&S company treading in DSLR turf, and likely the one to 'P&S'ify DSLRs, Sony is now the ONLY manufacturer not to offer video on a DSLR, and it actually hurts them now! ; (Though I must admit, I couldn't possibly have less interest in video on a DSLR...still, one must admit that it's a bullet point they don't get to put in their consumer ads).

    On the HDR function...indeed, it is just milliseconds. ; It's quite amazing. ; Of course, the first example above was a 3-second exposure - obviously the longer the exposure, the longer the HDR, since it has to shoot two frames. ; But when talking about daylight use, the camera fires off two frames immediately together - probably 1/4 of a second or so (remember the A550 has a 7fps capability, so it's pretty speedy at bursting). ; And it's ready for the next shot after maybe another 1/4 to 1/3 second delay. ; I have taken back to back HDR handhelds at around 1 second to no more than 2 seconds apart. ; It's quite cool.

    Here's another example last night - this was ISO3200, handheld, with my Sigma 30mm F1.4 lens at F2, which gave me a 1/200 shutter speed in my backyard at night...HDR mode at +1.5EV, two exposures merged in under 1 second, and basically 100% noise free with no post processing, straight to jpeg:

    [​IMG]

    It's quite cool - and on top of the increased high ISO processing and noise control of this camera, the built-in HDR adds quite a neat second trick to further reduce noise and increase detail when shooting ISO1600-6400 (12800 is still a bit extreme, for emergencies only...but better than I could have ever expected). ; I'm actually very curious to find out if the HDR function is fast enough to fire off two mergable frames from the moving rides at Disney, and blend them with no ghosting. ; Pirates and HM are pretty slow, and if ISO6400 and F1.4 gets me shutter speeds of 1/100 or better, that could be enough to get two HDR frames close enough to merge.
     
  14. PolynesianMedic

    PolynesianMedic Global Moderator Staff Member

    Justin that opening shot is wonderful. ; What a great discovery.
     

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