Beware If You're So Bold As To Take A Camera To Downtown Disney

Interesting...but as with all such incidents, there are too many unknown variables to really get the whole, wide-open story. ; One of our fellow TMIPers had an incident at DD if I remember correctly. ; I don't think any of these situations can be labeled a new policy by Disney...likely hundreds or thousands of photographers of all skill levels photograph throughout Downtown Disney on a regular basis without incident, even with huge DLRs and lenses and tripods and backpacks.

Variables: ethnicity of the photographer, bias of the guard, recent threats or situations at the location, who woke up on the wrong side of the bed, reaction to the questioning, reaction to the answers...for all we know the guard hates people wearing striped shirts and the poster was wearing one that day.

 

Not likely - I've used a tripod during the day many times, throughout the parks and Downtown Disney. ; As I said, too many variables. ; Even just the attitudes of either person, biases, or who knows what could have resulted in an escalation of a routine event into an incident.

I was asked one time at any Disney location if I was a professional photographer...I answered a simple no, in a friendly manner, and was greeted by the same friendliness back from the CM, and that was it. ; And I really do spend lots of time each year at Disney with all variety of lenses and tripods...including taking huge amounts of time in one spot with tripod set up waiting for crowds to clear and taking multiple frames just like Mr. Beem.

My own personal opinion...and it is just that...is that either Mr. Beem or Don the Security Guard somehow escalated or instigated a routine event into a confrontation and challenge - either one of them could have responded in just the right sarcastic tone, or with just a hint of resistance or challenge, and the other may have reacted off of that. ; It really could have just been a bad day or the wrong moment for either of them.

The most reliable brand of car can break down, the best chef in the world can make a bad dish, the best typist in the world can have a typo...none of these things is taken as a rule, just fluke incidents. ; My own personal opinion is that Mr. Beem experienced just such a fluke, and is unfortunately taking it especially hard and vengeful - as he is wont to do. ; It won't be worrying me personally to take photos at Downtown Disney as I always do.

 

He *ignores* the fact that the House of Blues building and style is privately owned, and they were concerned that he was taking pictures to either copy it or to publish it.

They had every right to ask for his ID and hassle him, sorry. ; All they wanted was someway to get back to who did it if images of the building were sold, etc. etc. or copied.

Notice that he glances over the architectural question from them as if it wasn't important. ;

"You can't have my ID" people are beginning to drive me nuts. ; "You can't scan my ID to sell me beer" blah blah blah

 

I actually came here to post a link to this blog post.

Back in '07 I was harassed by Disney Security about taking tripod pictures at Pleasure Island. ; At the time (before I joined TMIP) the guards told us that tripods = professional and it wasn't allowed.

I told him that it was news to me since I have had no issues in the parks. I was told that DTD is not the parks and has different rules.

Later a friend on another board asked his aunt who works for Disney Security what was going on and we were informed that there are no rules forbidding picture taking or the use of tripods. ;

 

there are many issues that mr. beem does not address so i am not going to comment on his post other than one point that i will get to in a few moments. ; i do appreciate the support that most of you are showing to the walt disney company regarding this situation.

here is the bottom line from someone uniquely qualified to see both sides of the photographer/security argument:

the bottom line all is that disney property is the private property of the walt disney company. ; they can and have every right to ask what are you doing and ask you to not take photos of certain subjects. ; william beem is completely wrong with his assertion that they cannot. ; there are some attractions in which photography is not permitted, as clearly evidenced by the warnings they give you in the pre-show or queue areas. ; the "right to take pictures" is not a constitutionally or god-given right; how many universal studios photography communities have you visited? ; if you want a prime example of where you have no right to take pictures, try photographing a bridge, power plant, airport, etc. ; the rhetoric about the "patriot act giving security and law enforcement the right to do whatever they want" is tired and quite often misused.

we also do not know if there were any threats or intelligence about downtown disney at the time of the report by mr. beem. ; perhaps there was a report of a plot or incident at the house of blues that security received. ; they are not going to share that information with you and do not have to show you any written policies that they are acting under at the time. ; security is acting as the custodial authority of the property, and in certain circumstances they have more authority than law enforcement (detain/ban/question), because they are not bound by the same rules as law enforcement officials due to their private nature. ; of course they still need reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause to take certain action but let's again remember that this is private property.

another important distinction to note is the actual definition of harassment. ; i really think some people need to get a little more thick-skinned and stop getting bent out of shape every time someone says no to them or asks them what they are doing. ;

here is the NJ definition of harassment, as defined by NJS 2C:33-4a:

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Except as provided in subsection e., a person commits a petty disorderly persons offense if, with purpose to harass another, he:

a. Makes, or causes to be made, a communication or communications anonymously or at extremely inconvenient hours, or in offensively coarse language, or any other manner likely to cause annoyance or alarm;

b. Subjects another to striking, kicking, shoving, or other offensive touching, or threatens to do so; or

c. Engages in any other course of alarming conduct or of repeatedly committed acts with purpose to alarm or seriously annoy such other person.

A communication under subsection a. may be deemed to have been made either at the place where it originated or at the place where it was received.

d. (Deleted by amendment, P.L.2001, c.443).

e. A person commits a crime of the fourth degree if, in committing an offense under this section, he was serving a term of imprisonment or was on parole or probation as the result of a conviction of any indictable offense under the laws of this State, any other state or the United States.
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it is important to note that it says "with purpose to harass". ; just because someone is asking a bunch of questions that you don't like, it doesn't make it harassment.

i have had security ask me questions on several occasions and have found that speaking nicely with them and treating them as actual humans, and not the people "with guts, guns, and grudges" and "Officious police/rent-a-cops who think photography is a terrorist activity (or who just enjoy hassling people for no good reason)" as gerry rosser called them. ; i have found that many times over these situations could have been diffused quickly and easily by simple cooperation and avoiding spouting the convenient rhetoric about "my rights". ;

there are a few rouge officers just as there are rogue mcdonald's employees, photographers, bus drivers, etc. but 99% of the security and law enforcement officials are good, professional, family people who have a job to do. ; the thing about the rogue officers that most people don't realize is that fellow officers usually don't like them either.

it think we all need to step back and appreciate the fact that disney security officers are willing to do that job and put up with all that garbage for minimal pay. ; they are there to keep us safe and to allow us to enjoy our hobby and the resort and they should be worked with and not against, just for the sake of proving a simple point.

here are some suggestions:
1. ; remain calm and cooperate
2. ; treat them as actual people
3. ; be polite and respectful
4. ; understand that they have a job to do
5. ; some people actually do use photos for bad purposes. ; just because you don't, someone else might (9/11/2001).
6. ; if you feel that you have been mistreated, follow up in a professional manner after the fact.

at this time i am closing this thread, as i think we have all had a chance to make our point.